From the looks of some of the discussion happening on Carpentersville news threads around the web, it seems that the call to “leave the Humpfer situation to the courts, and get back to Village business” means “let’s get back to talking about illegal immigration”.
Anti-illegal immigration activists cited that the reason Paul Humpfer was been maligned had nothing to do with his domestic battery convictions, but rather his stance on illegal immigration. After telling those who thought Humpfer’s conviction for domestic battery made him ineligible to hold office to “get back to Village business”, the focus of discussions returned to illegal immigration actions.
For 2 years, public comment at Village Board meetings has mostly involved illegal immigration and comments critical of members of the Board, most especially President Bill Sarto and Linda Ramirez-Sliwinski. (Lack of ideas presented on the recent “discussion thread” regarding improvements for the Village seem to mirror the general lack of ideas presented at Board meetings.)
However … is illegal immigration really the panacea for Carpentersville that it is being made out to be? Is illegal immigration really the most important issue facing the Village? And, if not, then why is such talk dominating everything?
I would say that those who continue to raise the issue of illegal immigration are doing so because of a genuine lack of anything substantially positive to offer the residents of Carpentersville.
25 comments
May 29, 2008 at 9:45 pm
SAM
One the big problems I see with any illegal immigration debate is that most only seem to think there are two factions to the issue. You are either viewed as part of the “illegal means illegal” group or you must be part of the “amnesty for all illegals” group. There’s a lot of middle ground in between these two positions. Unfortunately, rarely is that middle ground ever addressed. If you are here illegally, then yes, I feel you should be deported. There are legal means for gaining citizenship and access to the United States, and that needs to be recognized. However, this is only the beginning. The real debate is how you go about enforcing the existing laws and deportation in an effective manner.
With that said, no, I don’t think illegal immigrants are the root cause of all the ills facing Carpentersville or the United States. We have an energy crisis, rising gas prices, a war in Iraq and are in the middle of a recession. More locally, we have streets in need of repair and need funding for improvements at the C’Ville fire station and a new public works building.
Should illegal immigration be ignored? Absolutely not. However, let’s see if we can tackle some of these other issues, while in the process of working through the illegal immigration issue.
May 30, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Chrysippus
SAM,
I agree with you about the problems present in the illegal immigration debate. I think that the majority of people realize that there are significant problems with current immigration laws, quotas, etc that require reform. But, mention “reform” and you are automatically labeled as an “amnesty” advocate.
I’ve made my views about illegal immigration known on this site, and they tend toward the “middle of the road”.
I also agree that there should be a primary focus on improvements to roads, economy, image, etc. Such revitalization efforts (vs penalization) would seem to be of more benefit to the community — benefits that I don’t believe will be realized as long as illegal immigration underpins most discussions.
Jun 22, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Brian Sargent
Illegal Immigrants are a threat to our society. It bothers me to hear Spanish being spoke all the time, and also even the big box ppl like Burger King, and Mcdonlads cater to this.
There is only one country, one flag, and one language, if you dont like that then I suggest you take your selves to another country, and see how far your thoughts, and ideas go there.
Also, if you dont think Mexico immigration in Caroentersville is an issue, then you havent walked around this town very much!! ie, Mcdonalds, the annual carnival that comes to town here, hell just riding down the street..WAKE UP…….WE NEED THIS IMMIGRATION ISSUE BROUGHT UP AGAIN, OR ALL OF YOU CAN LIVE HERE IN C-VILLE/MEXICO IM SELLING THE HOUSE, CANT TAKE THIS PLACE NO-MORE
Jun 23, 2008 at 10:12 am
At a Glance
So, Brian, How much do you think you want to pay in taxes to cover the costs for the lawsuits against the Village? The Federal Government is responsible for immigration and when Villages or Cities try to do it, the courts have ruled it unconstitutional. Hazelton PA has passed a similar ordinance to the one that was attempted here and they have been hit with huge fines and court costs and the case is still in the appeals courts today. Maybe we will be luckier than Hazelton and we will have donations that will actually pay for the bulk of the costs. It didn’t happen there – I doubt if it will here.
We all agree that Illegal Immigration is a problem but it is how you fix it that is important. Trying to do it in Carperntersville would just be throwing your tax dollars away. There is no way to take the issues of immigration on locally and not cost the community everything. if you want to get out, I suggest you do it before Humpher and Sigwalt try to pass an ordinance that will cripple the Village and make it impossible to sell you home.
Jun 23, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Brian Sargent
Well at a Glance, I think that is the broken part of this anyway, as “Illegal Immigrants should have no rights under “”OUR”" constitution…
First, as a taxpayer of this village, and believe me when I say that my taxes are outrageous, although if I had to pay more to cover this type of suits then that is what has to be done, secondly if this village did not offer $250,000.00 tax breaks for another spanish store on the east side we would have that to add to our legal fund.
Also, with all due respect, Sigwalt & Humphrey seems to be the only ones with the backbone to stand up to this illegal invasion, and that is exactlly what it is. I do agree that this is a federal issue, but just as always the federal government is not there unless it is for them, and has pretty much always been that way, atleast for quite a while.
While I am not for raising taxes, not doing nothing at all is costing us more evrey month, with loss of taxes from illegals “shacking” up and then sending 3 famlies worth of kids to school, our infrastructure, medical, the list goes on……add all that up and see what we have for our legal fund to oust these people from our community, and our country..
To do nothing is not the answer, and neither is waiting on the federal government……
Jun 23, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Chrysippus
I would say that things need to change, but creating new laws and making declarations such as “English as the official language”, I believe actually do a disservice to the country — and, unfortunately, there is a subset of proponents who are proposing it as a means to deny services to those who are simply not proficient in the English language.
I also think that the business sector of this country is doing a disservice to those who are not yet proficient in the English language by doing things that provide no assistance or incentive to learning English (although it should be noted that some businesses and industry do offer programs to help with English literacy).
My point here is that, basically, we need to provide incentive to learn English, without creating laws and ordinances that compel people to do what we think they should do. If people don’t want to learn English, that should be fine. But, we shouldn’t cater to them either.
Jun 23, 2008 at 8:40 pm
James
“Also, with all due respect, Sigwalt & Humphrey seems to be the only ones with the backbone to stand up to this illegal invasion, and that is exactlly what it is.”
If by “stand up to this illegal invasion” you mean they use the issue to get everyone worked up enough to vote for them, then not do anything about it now they they’ve been on the Board with a majority for a while, you’re right.
Perpetually tabling ordinances and passing resolutions instead of ordinances so the Village doesn’t get sued (more)… wow, now that’s tough!
Jun 24, 2008 at 3:24 pm
At a Glance
Brian, I’m not sure if you are against Hispanics or Illegal Immigrants. To provide a new stores in a community that is nearly half Hispanic is smart business. While some may be illegal, it would appear from the census that most are here legally. They should have a place to shop as anyone in the Village would want. And the Village would seem to gain from the taxes that it collects from the business.
Another point that is often misrepresented is that illegals do not pay taxes. Most people think they don’t and yet they work for companies that withhold taxes, pay social security and the illegals will often never benefit from it. Yes they might send their kids to school but they do pay for the property taxes that funds our schools, indirectly if not directly, thru the rents they pay or if they own a home, they pay the real Estate taxes as well as we all do. So don’t think they are getting things for nothing. It is a stupid lie that is forced on us and we too often believe it. Learn the facts and fight the ignorance that is fed to us!!
An example of this is social Security. Most say it will be bankrupt in 2047 but that is not counting the money that the illegals have paid into the system and will never take out. Social Security will not go bankrupt because of it…At least not for many years beyond the 2047 projected date.
Jun 24, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Peter Piper
“Is illegal immigration really the most important issue facing the Village? And, if not, then why is such talk dominating everything?”
No, it is not the most important issue facing the village, it is a VERY important issue for the WHOLE COUNTRY! Which you seemed to have missplaced somewhere. Arizona has just passed laws to deal with it, Farmers Branch, although denied due to phonentics, as put a amended ordinance that seems as though it will stick. Other states, Oklahoma and Kentucy also started making it difficult for illegal employment. Nothing is being said about Hispanic’s, other than the reporting of them running scared. Why? Because they grew up that way in Mexico, scared of the Military and Police and the 70 years of control by a voted in dictorship.
Now we have the cartels targeting people, perhaps citizens, in Arizona and New Mexico. So much for a loose border!
At a Glance says: “The Federal Government is responsible for immigration and when Villages or Cities try to do it, the courts have ruled it unconstitutional.”
Strange, you make it sound like the Federal Government that is NOT doing it’s job believes that we are WRONG to try something. Have you forgot 287 (g), that people in our Village government said was coming to town? Something. No body has said we sounded do it, only the methods are not within the Constitution.
Except the outlaws should NOT be protected by our Constitution, we in fact should use their Constitution, which calls for them to be thrown out immedialy.
Chapter III
Foreigners
“Article 33. Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualifications set forth in Article 30. They are entitled to the guarantees granted by Chapter I, Title I, of the present Constitution; but the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.
Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country.”
If we followed their Constitution, no more amnesty marches in Chicago or anywhere in the United States.
Perhaps illegal’s could become Americans by serving in the military?
But why?
“Article 32. (14)Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces.”
“In order to belong to the National Navy or the Air Force, and to discharge any office or commission, it is required to be a Mexican by birth. This same status is indispensable for captains, pilots, masters, engineers, mechanics, and in general, for all personnel of the crew of any vessel or airship protected by the Mexican merchant flag or insignia It is also necessary to be Mexican by birth to discharge the position of captain of the port and all services of pratique and airport commandant, as well as all functions of customs agent in the Republic.”
Has far as helping people that may have illegal’s in the family, this is the Constitution of Mexico’s opinion.
“Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters. The State may grant the same right to foreigners, provided they agree before the Ministry of Foreign Relations to consider themselves as nationals in respect to such property, and bind themselves not to invoke the protection of their governments in matters relating thereto; under penalty, in case of noncompliance with this agreement, of forfeiture of the property acquired to the Nation. Under no circumstances may foreigners acquire direct ownership of lands or waters within a zone of one hundred kilometers along the frontiers and of fifty kilometers along the shores of the country.”
It is not about national origin, it is about breaking the law.
I know you understand the concept of law, you just don’t know how it works in the real world.
Have a nice day.
Jun 24, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Brian Sargent
Very well stated Piper….As far as being against Hispanics, at this time it is the only language I deal with as much as Emglish, from Com Ed, At& T, Burger King, Mcdonalds, the list goes on…it is this Spanish crap that all these people think is all ok to have evreywhere. I dont see Polish, Russian, German, or any other language in our society as Spanish, so yes it is the hispanics, and the illegals..
I believe that if they would speak English, that the majority of us would not be so harsh, however they dont care about our heritage so well……
Piper said it best with the true facts of Mexicos immigration laws, I think we need to copy that to our constituition, just to seet all this straight,
“Good for the Goose, Good for the Gander…..
Jun 24, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Brian Sargent
If you cant speak English..then u must not be LEGAL…..ONE LANGUAGE, ONE FLAG, ONE COUNTRY..
Jun 24, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Chrysippus
Here’s some questions …
If all these places are truly acting against illegal immigration, then why is Carpentersville waiting? Why aren’t Paul and Judy seeking to put this back on the table? And what about Keith Hinz? Weren’t they elected to do crack down on illegal immigration?
Isn’t this the reason why Paul Humpfer is still sitting on the Board, despite conviction of domestic abuse?
Are we interrogating those arrested about their legal status in this county? We applied for 287(g), right?
If this is an issue so vital to our country, and other states and cities are doing things about it, why isn’t Carpentersville?
Maybe one $30 million lawsuit is enough, huh?
As for the Mexican laws, and that of other countries … I have to say that I couldn’t give a damn about what their laws and constitutions say …
Isn’t this the United States of America?! The greatest country in the world? Why is that? Because we are different from the rest of the world … we are a land of opportunity. This country has become what it is because of its foundational principles. Its why we have people lining up for decades to come to this country, to realize the benefits and quality of life that we enjoy.
So let’s not talk about how they do things in other countries … because if you think that that’s the answer, then maybe you should become a citizen of one of those countries.
Jun 24, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Chrysippus
Brian, you can be a legal resident in this country without being proficient in the English language. In fact, in order to obtain citizenship, you have to be a permanent legal resident in this country for at least 5 years, in most cases.
If we take a look at history too, we know that many people who came to this country a century ago often didn’t speak English.
Jun 24, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Chrysippus
Dennis, you agreed with me that illegal immigration is not the most important issue facing the Village (or even this country — even if it is “important” ) … so would you answer the second part of that question “why is it dominating the discussion?”
Jun 25, 2008 at 10:38 am
At a Glance
Brian, you ask why only the Hispanics don’t speak English. Well, let me tell you that I have worked in the business world for many years and in some communities we had to have Polish, German, Italian, Chinese and Korean speaking people working for our organizations to communicate with the people of the neighborhoods. In Carpentersville, you are only aware of Spanish but throughout the area and the country, this is very common.
Remember, we are all here from immigrants, unless you are native American. My grandparents would not speak English when they came here in the early 1900’s but my parents and our generation each grew more proficiant. That’s the way it goes from generation to generation.
And, Peter Peter, feeds into your insecurity by making you believe or reinforcing the stereotype of the Mexican. He wants us to believe they are all bad people. But, they are really the victims here, allowed to come here and work hard for low wages. it is businesses that use them and I agree that the businesses should be heavily fined for doing so. Enforcement is not difficult. It is required that every person hired must show proof of legal residency. But the problem is that the Republicans, supported by big business, cut the funding for the enforcement back when Reagan gave tehm amnesty in the 1980’s. Keep supporting the Repubilcans and keep the problems going. They were instrumental in killing the last bill that Congress tried to pass on Immigration reform. They haven’t offered anything of their own either. Even the McCain – Kennedy bill has now changed to the Kennedy bill because john McCain is no longer supporting his own immigration reform bill.
And, States have different powers than cities or Villages do, so Arizona’s laws are not unconstitutional under states rights provisions.
Jun 25, 2008 at 11:02 am
Brian Sargent
“In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who
comes here in good faith becomes an American and
assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact
equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to
discriminate against any such man because of creed, or
birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man’s
becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an
American…There can be no divided allegiance here! Any
man who says he is an American, but something else also,
isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the
American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which
symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as
much as it excludes any foreign flag …….We have room for
but one language here, and that is the English language….
and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is
a loyalty to the American people.”
President Theodore Roosevelt, 1919
Jun 25, 2008 at 11:38 am
Chrysippus
We should provide for every immigrant, by day-schools for the
young and night-schools for the adult, the chance to learn English; — Theodore Roosevelt, September 10, 1917
Any discrimination against aliens is a wrong, for it tends to put the immigrant at a disadvantage and to cause him to feel bitterness and resentment during the very years when he should be preparing himself for American citizenship. — Theodore Roosevelt, October 12, 1915
Never under any condition should this Nation look at an immigrant as primarily a labor unit. He should always be looked at
primarily as a future citizen and the father of other citizens who are to live in this land as fellows with our children and our children’s children. Our immigration laws, permanent or temporary, should always be constructed with this fact in view. — Theodore Roosevelt, December 1, 1917
Jun 25, 2008 at 2:11 pm
James
“Any man who says he is an American, but something else also,
isn’t an American at all.”
So why aren’t we fighting against all of these other nationalities who set up here… Polish, German, Jewish, African… all these people who are “Americans,” yet hold onto their ancestry?
Does this mean when folks say “I am also Italian” or “English” when referring to grandparents they are not “an American” because they mention some other nation along with America when identifying themselves?
Tell that to all the Polish grandmothers out there in Chicagoland!
Jun 25, 2008 at 2:42 pm
At a Glance
And, Happy St. Patrick’s day to you all…..
Jun 25, 2008 at 2:53 pm
At a Glance
You know what I hate is people that hide behind the US flag and don’t know what it really stands for. “America, love it or leave it.” That’s the kind of thing that is absolutely against everything that America stands for. This is the land of liberty and justice for all, but we think it is only for us and not others, making us anti-American.
Learn what the Flag stands for and fight for the rights that it gives us. Limiting others rights will ultimaely limit yours and mine and I’m not ready to give them up very easily!!!
Jun 25, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Brian Sargent
I clearly “hate” people that say they love America, but hate Americans……
Jun 25, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Brian Sargent
James your answer is $$$$, so sad. but so TRUE
Jun 26, 2008 at 6:45 am
Brian Sargent
Mexicans are not like other nationalities that have come here to live. Mexicans take our welfare, and other programs which are offered in SPANISH……using my tax dollars… In the “day” those immigrants had no choice but to learn English OR DIE…….But here are all these damn bleeding heart people that clearly have never severed a day in the military, which I have, and have no idea what it it to FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, all they know is how to give something away they NEVER had to fight to defend….
KEEP GIVING IT AWAY, DUMBASSES
Jun 26, 2008 at 7:40 am
Chrysippus
I guess you don’t believe what Roosevelt said, after all — just what makes whatever point you feel like making.
Your attitude seems to be precisely what Roosevelt was speaking to when he said, Any discrimination against aliens is a wrong, for it tends to put the immigrant at a disadvantage and to cause him to feel bitterness and resentment during the very years when he should be preparing himself for American citizenship.
Today it is expected that we write bias and prejudice into our laws. Thankfully the Courts aren’t typically allowing it.
Look around. There are plenty of non-Mexicans — even “white people” — on the welfare rolls who are too stinkin’ lazy to go out and get a job. They think they are too good to deliver pizzas or mow lawns.
But let’s make sure we call out those lazy “Mexicans”, right?
Let’s get rid of all social services … no more welfare, no more food stamps/WIC, no Medicare/Medicaid … no more Social Security. Let’s get rid of the police and fire departments and city services like water and sewer and waste management. Abolish public education.
Let’s make everyone do for themselves.
You want to talk about “fighting” … it’ll become survival of the fittest … like it was back in the “day”, back in the “wild west”. Have you ever noticed that crime increases as poverty increases?
Fight for freedom?! Not quite … fight for your life.
Jun 26, 2008 at 10:17 am
At a Glance
Brian, you say the Mexicans are different because they come here to stay. So did our ancestors. You say they use our welfare and you obviously think they are taking something from you. Well, the facts are that they come here and WORK. They work the manual labor jobs for a lot less money than others would do it for – making them the victims. They are exploited by the big businesses to keep wage costs down. I’m sure you have heard about the outsorcing of our jobs – companies moving to other countries to keep wages low so they can make more money. Well, some of those jobs can’t be exported. Jobs like building roads, or houses, or even the service industry jobs like McDonalds have to have workers here in the US. So, they let the Mexicans come across our borders and put them to work. Because they can’t complain about the wages, because they can’t join the unions, they work for what ever money they can get. And, the businesses are able to lower their expenses and make more profit.
This is the “game” our government plays on us. Especially the republicans. They want business to make huge profits – make the rich even richer and so they allow the Mexicans and other people from other countries to come into the country to help business. The real problem isn’t welfare. It is the reduction in our wages. Over the past 7 years, real wages have declined in the US. Why? Because there are people that they can force to do the work for less money. And, if you want a job, you are competing with those that will do it for less.
You aim you attacks at the Hispanics – calling them Illegal immigrants, but the businesses and those that support these practices, are the ones that should be the target of our complaints. We need to direct our anger and resentment toward those that create the problems, not the victims. They want us to go after the Mexicans and others that are the victims and they make you believe that they are the problem. Just look at what they did in New Orleans. The victims – the ones that couldn’t care for themselves, didn’t have cars or places to go, for not leaving the city when Katrina hit. They blamed them for their own deaths. And the sad part is that we actually believe this stupidity. How pathetic. And you say you fought to protect our “freedom” but I ask you what are we free to do today other than take what the businesses and government give us. We can work if enough jobs are kept in the US. We can buy things as long as our pay isn’t cut or the value of our dollar still is enough to pay for something. Look at gas prices. While our consuption decreases, the price goes up and the profits of the big oil compnaies hits record highs. Craziness…. No, the economic conditions in this country are a disaster and it isn’t because of Illegal Immigration – it is because of illegal employment practices by business that allows this to happen. How many Illegals would come to this country if they couldn’t find a job? The answer is Zero! They don’t come here for welfare but like all our ancestors, for a better life. If they couldn’t get work, they would be better off in their own counties. And, don’t you think that we could stop illegal immigrants from coming across our boarders if we really wanted to stop it????? The simple answer is – they don’t want to stop it. And, we take it out on the Mexicans for trying to better themselves…